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This study adds to the existing body of knowledge on the benefits to learners of using an interdisciplinary design thinking (DT) pedagogical approach taking the form of a micro credential with an extra curricula workshop.

The interpretivist research examined opinion via nine semi-structured interviews with learners who had participated in a workshop. The interviews focussed on demographic information, learning strategies, workshop interdisciplinary benefits and being taught via DT. The recorded interviews and transcriptions were analysed via NVivo and content analysis.

The results are themed into development opportunities, future learning, making meaning and sense and practical application of knowledge and skills reflection for the students. The DT pedagogy worked well for the students who confirmed university learning should be this way, adding to the debate on embedding engaging interdisciplinary methods to embed entrepreneurship and innovation in the curriculum.

The research is original as the use of DT has added value to the students' development and mindset. Developing graduates this way benefits the local and national economy, as the reach of graduates' transferability makes them fit for the future.

This paper gives the background to the ISO 18404:2015 standard and explains its rationale. It aims to rebut the Oudrhiri et al. (2022) paper. Furthermore, this paper adds further evidence of the misplacement and unfitness for use of the standard, as evidenced in the previous work by Antony et al. (2021, 2022).

A point-counterpoint methods approach with a literature review of studies available on ISO 18404:2015 to respond to the Oudrhiri et al. (2022) study.

The findings indicate that Oudrhiri et al.'s (2022) work is not open minded in relation to ISO18404. Each point raised in the Oudrhiri et al. (2020) study has been answered and counter argued.

Other than Antony et al.'s three studies (2021 and 2022) and Oudrhiri et al.’s (2022) study empirical studies looking into the impact of the ISO 18404 standard in the literature were limited. As the literature has shown, many companies are not utilising the standard given its current format; hence, a lack of information relating to the practical implementation is sparse.

The findings indicate that Oudrhiri et al.'s (2022) work can be answered and counter argued.

This study consolidates and strengthens the findings from the three studies by Antony et al. (2021 and 2022) and acts as a rebuttal to the Oudrhiri et al. (2022) study.